01 – Being Bitten By the Entrepreneurial Bug – Amit Gupta – co-Founder gogoBus

• Moving into the eCommerce space in 2012
• The transition from corporate to small company culture
• Recognizing the lack of affordable transport in India
• Building back and front-end systems for bus companies
• 400,000 buses coming to a standstill as COVID hit
• Bus route optimization
• Improving accessibility and affordability
• Customer satisfaction across the value chain
• How data helps efficiency
• Handling revenue leaks
• Building a payment system?
• Possible partnerships in the insurance world
• Building and branding their own buses

1. Making a Conscious Call as a Business Person
2. Where is My Bus?
3. Helping People Slowly Find Value
4. Moving Forward Piece by Piece
5. Positively Impacting Not Only the Society But Also the Environment

Read the best-effort transcript below (This technology is still not as good as they say it is…):

Michael Waitze 0:21
Hi, this is Michael Waitze, and welcome to India GameChanger. Today we are joined by Amit Gupta, a co founder at gogoBus. I like the extra ‘go’, by the way at the beginning. I mean, thank you so much for joining the show. How are you doing today?

Amit Gupta 0:35
Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me over here is extremely excited to talk to you guys. Thank you.

Michael Waitze 0:41
I am super happy to have you as well. Before we get into the main part of the conversation, why don’t we get a little bit of your background for some context.

Amit Gupta 0:49
So to give you my background about myself, if you ask about I have a into different aspects of the mobility. So I’m Marina by qualification, if you ask me say lawn chair, love to see different parts of the culture different parts of the country while working in the ship, I think that’s where the beauty of the value of working on the shipping. And after working for about two, two and a half year, I moved out and then work in consulting space, were largely working, advising a lot of the big four Client Servicing, thinking about putting up their investment into the heavy infrastructure largely talking about poor shipbuilding yards, maybe the railway yard, or maybe they’re poor. So how basically mixing up both the aspect of the logistics and heavy infrastructure investment. That has been my core forte, before I was bitten by the entrepreneurial bug, like if I say, almost seven, eight years back, I started a venture by the name of Verilog. It was basically into the last mile ecommerce delivery. But one of the things which we realize is although the E commerce was picking up at that point of time, but if we talk about the last mile delivery, or if I say what the Jays have been talking about quick commerce delivery, and 10 minute delivery. So I used to do that in 2012, were largely servicing or helping out the e commerce clients to get the delivery to make them their customer happy customer. And I think I think that was on the way to a larger extent, we were able to deliver that performance and was actually became a significant amount of a game changer for a lot of the young ecommerce startup at that point of time. And I think I think that where you find happiness on the client can make you also happy. That was one of the fundamental reasons ran that almost two and a half, three years at a bootstrap level. But then you realize he had to go bigger and deeper, you have to go at a much, much larger scale. So but when we are not able to go much deeper into that I take the with lots of learnings around of learning almost to the level that you are learning every day, how they are impacting the life of the consumers, or how you’re impacting the life of the delivery boys who are actually working with you on a daily basis. That was one thing, the biggest part. But then after having lots of learning, I realized he’s not reaching up to the right level. I think sometimes, as a business person, as an entrepreneur, you have to take a conscious call, although it’s a very, very difficult call at that point of time. If I look at the hindsight, yes, but I think that was the decision which we took, we closed that venture. And that’s where I think my journey with the passenger mobility started, when I joined one of the leading, I would say at that point of time, we were just starting up the idea was how we can actually help out the people to reach the office. Because at that point of time, Ola, and Uber was almost becoming a ubiquitous number name in the Indian continent, but how you can actually help out the people to reach their office daily. So that when I joined a company called chatter, which SSU TT and which you call them, they got a lot of exciting investments also from the interesting VCs also, but the same time. The biggest part was you’re impacting the daily life, the people who are looking to go when a respectable way to an office, because there was a huge gap like either you go buy a two wheeler or shared, I would call it a temper Otto there, India, or you have a private car or taxi. So there’s a huge gap between the affordability range and a comfortable range where shuttle was beautifully fitting over there. And we were lucky enough to scale up the operation from almost zero to 1500 buses in almost seven cities in almost four years time. But that was my learning was chattel work. And

Michael Waitze 4:36
can I get Can I ask you this about shuttle? Did you build your own buses? Or did you use existing buses? You know what I mean that and then just or did you own your own fleet of buses to build this shuttle business?

Amit Gupta 4:47
We don’t own any other fleet assets so it was completely asset like model rather have the courage to the operator to work along with that it’s not something simple like we were providing the entire technology both the backend and the front end. Well, we Yeah, connecting the consumers with the owner of the bar and make sure that systems is running on a platform. That’s what we were doing.

Michael Waitze 5:07
Okay. And what did you learn from doing that? I guess the real question, let me back up for a second. The real question for me is, you worked at a consulting company, you were consulting for big, other big companies and advising them. And then you say, you’ve got the entrepreneurial bug. I feel like people that get the entrepreneurial bug are like surfers. Once you ride a wave, you want to keep riding, and then sometimes you look and you see a bigger wave, and you’re thinking, Can I ride the bigger wave? Whatever it is, I just want to be writing waves kind of thing. Do you feel like it’s the same thing? Do you don’t even like, do you feel like you could go back to being a consultant? Do? Do you feel like you’re an entrepreneur now? And like, that’s it? You can’t do anything else?

Amit Gupta 5:46
Yeah, absolutely, definitely before diving back. So I think I can relate to so much bigger, better analogy, if I talk about, like, if you have to move faster, you have to jump fast. Like when my first entrepreneurship journey, we had certain amount of learning where you realize he still a lot of the learnings have to be there. Because you’re building up an organization, you’re building a company, you’re not building up a small venture, which is going to be helping certain people. So I think I think the first startup when you move from a corporate culture to the entrepreneurship, you had certain amount of learning says how the organization’s has to build how the team has to prepare? Are you basically motivating the team? Are you making sure that the team is going along with a mission and a vision of the company, I think that was the biggest learning at that point of time, yes, you can get a lot of raw blood, draw passions around to build. But at one point of time, you also need to take a conscious call, whether you’re going in the right direction, that sometimes taking a step back to make a bigger leap is most critical. So if I put it in that way, like after closing my first venture, when I joined shuttle as an employee, you can call it doesn’t apply. But that was the biggest launch pad, I would say, to plan for something big, which we are doing right now, we are talking about much bigger scale, we are talking about much bigger, deeper penetration. And the impact which was being created at a particular level, you’re solving for a particular demographic of the population. Over here, what we’re doing right now is impacting at a much larger scale, where and specifically during the COVID time, all of a sudden, what we are building to become much more critical. Next, if I talk about in terms of number, there are more than 400,000 buses are running across India, which is living on the longer distance. And all of a sudden, when the COVID lockdown happened, this all brought to standstill. A lot of the assets like out of Foreign Sovereign productive to 60% was on the bank lease. All of a sudden, these operators start thinking how do I run my business? How do I run my family? How do I pay the drivers operator and all the you have direct and indirect employment all those gods standstill? And I think that was a eureka moment for us. When these type of people start approaching us? Can you help us in rebuilding our business? Can you help us in restricting ourselves how you can actually come back how we can actually use a smart technology and data to go because they understand key travel, although it has been curtailed for some time, but how we can go to the next level. So that’s what I think the biggest learning what we were like so fast learning and what we are doing currently, that we’re doing right now.

Michael Waitze 8:19
Can we talk a little bit about what interests are inside the country travel was like, at the beginning of COVID? And maybe how it’s changed today, and just where the bus companies came in? And I’ll tell you why I want to know this. You said there are 400,000 buses. That’s a lot of buses. But are there like four companies? Are there 10,000? You don’t I mean, like how many companies are there? So then how do you organize that fragmented market using this platform? How does all that work?

Amit Gupta 8:46
We talked about there are more than 2500 companies in India, which we call as the bus operator. And these bus operators have typically the fleet of anything between two to 10 buses going up to say five on the buses, the people who are paying, so they have close to 400 500 buses and they have played but largely it is the capex heavy with their owning that asset owning that asset or leasing that asset. I think the COVID what has actually happened is the people who are owning those assets, they have almost gone down to let’s say all of a sudden the asset start building believes that this is all about cash flow happening have no money flowing happening up all of a sudden when the cash flow stops, everything got to standstill. So they were they were real problem at that point of time.

Michael Waitze 9:30
So what exactly does go go bus do? How does it help the bus operators organized? How does it help them be more efficient? Are there fixed routes that the buses go on all the time? Or do they just try to figure out where people are and then try to make the route more efficient. So

Amit Gupta 9:45
that makes a lot more so we’re using the mix of fast learning how the buses are being operated there a certain amount of the sanctity around the roots has to be there, but definitely make sure how we’re getting the New Age environment like the how the demands is changing, can we build around some sort of a dynamic algorithm or dynamic platform, that dynamic routing to these buses where they can actually move around to be very frank cutter chart long story, what we are trying to basically do right now is which we call it very, very, I would say we take pride in calling data, we are working towards empowering the small and medium sized bus operator, as I mentioned, by providing the end to end technology and so that specifically in the post COVID scenario, how they can basically help they increase their accessibility and the profitability because these are the two things which is most critical in this market. And during this journey, where we are well pay working around to build around a fleet management, entire fleet utilization, helping them to manage their daily demands, how to manage their revenue, leakages, so all the plethora of things under a one complete platform we have tried to deliver.

Michael Waitze 10:53
And is there a b2c part of this as well? Right. So if I’m a bus operator, yeah, let me just walk through this a little bit. If I’m a bus operator, I clearly want to optimize. And I like this how you said, What did you call it, business leakage or revenue leakage, right. In other words, if I did it just a little bit differently, I could make more money, but also be more efficient and help serve my clients better. But in a way, just like Ola, you said, and Uber, if I order a taxi, I know where the taxi is, or at least I get some idea about when it’s coming. So is there a b2c aspect of this too. So if I want to take a bus somewhere, whether it’s inside my city in between cities, I know when it’s supposed to arrive, but I also know when it is going to

Amit Gupta 11:32
be I think I think that’s where the beauty of our system is. So we are definitely we call it a severe b2b b2c, because at the end of the day, when we are facilitating this b2b operator, we have to help them get a demand. So yes, that there, the convenient angle comes in, where we are also helping out the operator, but eventually helping them operator to get new set of customers, or even the third customer which is there. And today customer what they wanted. If I talk from a data point of view, like still, in spite of so much of GPS penetration, the mobile phone penetration, still we get a lot of the queries, I will say a lot of the queries more than 70% of the queries, the customer is asking where in my book, this is a very easily solvable problem. So that gives a very, very strong pointers around keys, even though the GPS systems there but set up a system is broken. How do I break your that broken system is working seamlessly and solving for the pain point of the consumer? Let’s talk about if I broke a vase can I know what what time it is I would reach so that I can plan out my journey further. So I think this became the most critical point for us if the buses are there. And two, I think this was like one of the pointers which sometimes we operate a source of aid because we were charging them a few bucks, you got to have a system for you have to pay a certain amount, not a bomb, but you definitely have to pay certain amount of thing. So but once they start finding value that this is what the beneficial for the consumer, they happily accepted that. And I think that’s what the beauty of HCl in the service oriented industry, we realized keep the people are able to find a value, then definitely they are ready to pay for it. Otherwise, what we are right now we are a very small player in the overall plethora of things. But I thought I think we are going that direction where people are really finding value as slowly slowly, we are going in that building up mode.

Michael Waitze 13:18
One of the things that you talked about at the beginning was you said you could see the customer happiness, right. As you build out this is in one of your earlier roles, you must be able to see some customer happiness on the buses on the in the bus and the Google bus business as well. Like you said, you know if it’s raining outside or if the weather is warm, or if the weather is inclement at any level, if I have to wait 15 extra minutes, this is going to be a problem for me just because it makes me unhappy. But if I know even the GPS system, you said it’s not perfect. But it’s better than nothing. If I know when it’s going to be there, that’s kind of making me happy. Do you see this happiness as well from the bus drivers from the bus operators?

Amit Gupta 13:57
Imagine? They say you’re standing on the highway and it is a freezing cold of the two degrees centigrade or three degrees centigrade in the night, right people and it’s raining pacifically the long distance journey people are doing in the overnight because they want to optimize like my daytime with the use or something else. In the night I will be traveling and imagine a situation what happened, you’re standing on the road to two degrees centigrade temperature outside freezing cold. And you’re just figuring out where’s my birth. And if I give you a new palmtop and you say okay, now the bus is about to cover 15 minutes, you can safely stand at the side or you can plan out your entire journey so that you’re not exposed to the extreme weather conditions. And I think that’s what we’re solving and then when we talk to the customer that gives us a sense of satisfaction towards also like okay, fine, you’re solving something which is really really valuable for these customers but nothing that where that gives the entire cake to the team that gives the motivation to the team also like the end of the year making not the entire gamut of the population but at least to one or two people who are coming over if they’re happy then we also feel activity going Doing something which is light?

Michael Waitze 15:02
Yeah, I want to get back to the numbers in a second, because the numbers in India, by definition are just large with 1.2, or 1.3 billion people of any percentage of that group does x, then x is going to be big. I want to get to that in a second factory. But I’m curious about these conversations for you, in which city are you based

Amit Gupta 15:20
At the office, Guragon which is next to Delhi which is the capital of India. But I talk about my operation, we are largely operating in the tier two, tier three market where eastern part of the country.

Michael Waitze 15:32
So you’re also in these tier two and tier three parts in the eastern part of the country, you’re also gathering a ton of data. And I’m also curious when you go and talk to the bus operators, not the first time, but after you implement the system, just at the beginning, right. And maybe they’re not using all of your associated services, but just at the beginning, and they see a little bit of these efficiency gains, what’s it like them to go and try to give them more services? You know, what I mean? Is it easier than Is it harder than what is that one of those conversations? Like?

Amit Gupta 16:00
There’s two things when you ask any pertinent question. So two things, when you go to the tier two, tier three market, a lot of the people are not even exposed to the digital world, they still are being operating the entire thing with a pen and paper. So for them slightly become easier, they still have an apprehension about system, but they start getting cavities. And there are some people who had exposure of the system, they do the comparison, okay, this versus that. So for them, we show them what is the value at which give them what is the transparency, we are building up more than the transparency more than value at the biggest thing, which we realize is today, there are multiple systems available. And imagine a situation like we have multiple tabs open on your system, and you’re managing the pricing, you’re managing customers managing feedbacks, and we say keyboard, imagine a situation I gave everything on one single platform, does that make your life easy? So that you relate to it? And that time it realized, okay, there I am not in a market where I need to sell the business of the people are already using it. But can I make it efficient? Can I make it reliable? Can I make sure it those guys are actually finding one. And that’s why we feel that sometimes we feel that we are actually giving the range to those people who are really, really dreaming of providing the pan India player or a national player,

Michael Waitze 17:14
the bus, it’s fundamentally a customer service business, right? It’s not like there are packages on the bus, per se, there may be some delivery, but it’s mostly bringing humans from one place to another place, which is a customer service business. Are you finding out that as you gather all this data, that then you allow the bus operators to provide better customer service? And even things like dynamic pricing? So better for the operators? Maybe, but just better service all the way around? And as you gather more data that and I don’t think people think about this necessarily, but that there’s an actually an artificial intelligence component to this as well.

Amit Gupta 17:49
I think Michael had somehow read our mind and he knows what exactly, actually, you’re absolutely right. We are doing all the things we are actually when we are saying when we are empowering these bus operators to increase their profitability, we are definitely empowering with the pricing intelligence, we are probably empowering with the right pricing. The pricing is something very interesting market was talking about the prices are changing at every point of time, every point in a day and every point in the week, how you have smartly given this narrative to the operator to plan out their pricing so that you’re not burning a hole in the customer pocket also, and you’re not actually making sure the operators are missing out on an opportunity, when there was a huge demand, you would have earned slightly more pricing around it. So yes, definitely, we are doing all the things, we are building a lot of the AI tools around it, we are building a small CPU which will be installed and above which we’ll be doing the counting of the passengers inside the bus when they’re getting in. And when they’re cutting out. Data become very, very interesting proposition for the operator.

Michael Waitze 18:50
Wait, tell me how this works. So you’re working so closely with the bus operators that you’ve now gained enough trust from them where you can start putting hardware. You have to me about this talk to him about what kind of hardware you’re putting on the bus. So

Amit Gupta 19:03
completely in house based software hardware, if you’re building a prototype in the prototype stage right now, that’s actually an AI based system, which will help the operators to basically control their revenue leakages. What happened is all that because we are working on a longer distance, the buses are going from a 20 kilometer to an 1000 kilometer and the operators has a very limited control. If somebody is onboarding above, maybe for a short trip or unapproved trips. How do you make sure that unauthorized passengers are not boarding the bus? How do I make sure that unauthorized passenger if it is boarding can I give an alert alarm at right point of time to the right stakeholder? It that gives bringing the discipline into the overall system that helped to purple one definitely that helped me in revenue, controlling the revenue leakages. Secondly, it actually enhances the customer safety to multi fold because I’m not allowing any unauthorized passengers Are there any unapproved passengers aboard the bus during the journey?

Michael Waitze 20:05
Now, we talked before about customer service too. And I remember when I used to live in Japan, I would walk into some restaurant in my neighborhood. And if I went there enough times, I didn’t even have to order per se, because the chef or the waiter would just know me and would just say, Michael, do you want the same pizza that you got the last time you were here kind of thing? And we talked earlier, if the bus is fundamentally a consumer service, or customer service business, will you be installing technology and building into that hardware into that operating system, right? This ability to identify the clients so that if they come on, like, they know that they’re just going 150 kilometers away, that the driver can then tell them, here’s your stop, do you know what I mean? All these little things that they can do to make that experience better as well.

Amit Gupta 20:48
And I think that’s where the mobile technology today comes from lecture today. If I say somebody’s booking for 150 kilometer, even if you’re sleeping, or drive home, they set out and give a buzzer alarm to the consumers in their hand, they know that they’re about to come. So during the day, I can give you it’s all about how can give the information timely to the consumer. Instead of putting a loudspeaker where it’s actually putting a discomfort to the a lot of other passengers, can I give an appointed targeted message to that particular consumer that stopped the ride. So I think that what we’re doing technology today, that technology is giving you that power, that you can do very, very localized, very, very targeted messaging to that particular company work. And that’s what we’re doing.

Michael Waitze 21:28
I want to get back to this idea of pen and paper that you talked about earlier, because I just had an idea. I’m sure you’ve already done this. But I’m just curious. If I’m running my business on pen and paper, particularly from a customer standpoint, and a ticket sales standpoint, it probably also means that I’m running my finances on pen and paper. If there are 400,000 buses out there, and you said, I don’t remember exactly how many companies there are. Can you also provide, say it again,

Amit Gupta 21:54
2000 plus companies,

Michael Waitze 21:55
so 2000 plus companies, a lot of companies, but can you also once you get involved in the buying and selling it tickets, the artificial intelligence around dynamic pricing, you potentially could also get involved in payments. So it can be digital payments as well. Once you’re doing that, can you also provide like a financial services platform for them? So not just from a logistics standpoint, they can be more efficient, but from a financial management standpoint, as well? Do you know what I mean? And then build an entire financial services business around the revenue that’s in the bus system?

Amit Gupta 22:23
Absolutely. Right. I think that were the fundamental of why they’re calling us as a platform. And I think, although it’s unfortunate, but yes, I think the COVID has given us lots and lots of the option to work upon exit when this demand situation get difficult when the operator started facing a lot of financial difficulty. We were approached, and we approached a couple of the non banking financial companies also, can we provide them a small cash flow or maybe working capital loan? So we are interested in SA P? Can we give them some sort of a working capital loan? Because they have a K to three, they have already assets on their books? Can we help them with some of the capital so that they can come back and restart their business? But that’s definitely there we are already doing in that division.

Michael Waitze 23:05
We I mean, it’s this revenue based financing, right? In other words, in the same way that big companies will fund e commerce companies when they know the what’s the right word, the consistency of their e commerce revenues, you can also fund CapEx for bus companies make a little bit of money there as well. But more importantly, and that’s great for their growth. But more importantly, you can also provide this I don’t know what it’s called, like financial inclusion for them so that even the profits that they make can then be potentially invested in financial service products that they didn’t even know exists because you now that you have those people on the platform, Africa for the other services as well.

Amit Gupta 23:40
That’s what which we call sometime calls ourself also, we are not a typical mobility company to think about mobility or the E commerce right today, everything is talking about digitization, and transactions on the platform can be enabled on both the demand and supply side, but we call it the b2b b2c can we enable both the demand and supply side to actually create new experience a new revolution for the consumers who are looking to travel because ultimately, I’m not saying I’m creating a demand for the travel, the demand for travel is already there, can I make it appreciate? Can I make it more smoother can make it more hassle free. But if you know that if I book on Google work, I get the seat I know it before after other to give you that example, we have gone down to that level like we have created like the monthly right path a couple of users are there with a travel every weekend to their home. Let’s say you want a particular seat that has already earmarked for you, you have bought that monthly pass for that. So you are secure, you know that this time slot by birth to December then is fixed and I can go anytime and everywhere on that particular day.

Michael Waitze 24:44
So this is may feel like a little bit out of left field but I’m curious about this as well. Whenever I think about platform businesses, I try to figure out what are the services you can add not just for the business side but for the consumers as well. So work with me on this for a second if there are 400 1000 buses working every single day in India and tell me where my math is wrong here. If only 100 people ride every bus on average, it’s 40 million people. We talked earlier about how just the numbers in India get large quickly, exactly. Is there a partnership for you with a health insurance company, an embedded insurance company to offer right insurance, but then other types of insurance and other types of financial services to the clients because they’re already maybe paying digitally with this thing, too. So now you have this multi sided market and a massive opportunity for both sides. Is that fair? Absolutely.

Amit Gupta 25:35
Right. And do we have we have not done integration right now. But yes, that is the plan, we will definitely get it done. Also, because the insurance is one of the critical aspects of a travel, how we can make sure this will be an additional level of safety, which we wanted to offer to our consumers. Definitely that will be there.

Michael Waitze 25:51
This is so interesting what you can offer it because I’m presuming more than 100 people a day ride the bus, but just the math was easy. I’d say 100 to 40 million. What else is coming? In other words, I I’m not in the bus business. I’m not in the payments business. But what else is coming that I may not have thought about already?

Amit Gupta 26:09
The biggest part which we feel is killing it will what exactly we are trying to solve for. Let’s say somebody wants to own a birthday thing where I showed from above? How do I run the bar, I don’t have any symptoms. So we say we have to be the first answer to that solution. We say, Okay, you own an asset, but you don’t know how to run the bar, we will provide you that intelligence, you don’t know where to run the bar, because it’s not about you’re not running above in one particular we’re talking about many to one mapping, you’re talking about at least 30 to 40, passengers finding 30 to 40 Passenger for that particular time slot to travel in that fun destination. The moment of that comes up here. The problem is I have a significant amount of complexity and that way in which we want to go step by step solving for one piece, and then we’ll go for the other piece. Otherwise, what will happen, is it easier to talk but then a lot of things get broken. So what do you think are we go gradually, our first step is how we make sure that buses are coming on their platform, they are GPS enabled, they are trackable. Then we go to the next level as to how we go deeper into the demand side building a machine learning AI platform to go and protecting the demand and how we leverage the data and enable these operators again, to get more business around it. And in this journey, what had happened institute a OEMs. Like, although we talked about their 2500 plus operator, there are 400,000 buses which are running for long distance, there are only seven OEMs in India, so all the seven OEMs are providing the for them, we become additional levers who actually go to the mass market without putting significant amount of investment in setting up your job setting up the player lecture you want to set up your retail job so we can become your partner so we can be the real enabler of the bus mobility ecosystem, both on the demand side and supply side. That’s what we envision the Google bus to be.

Michael Waitze 27:56
And is there an opportunity for you to have your own branded buses as well?

Amit Gupta 28:00
Definitely. Definitely.

Michael Waitze 28:05
I think that answer means Michael, that’s the dumbest thing you’ve asked me all day, but go ahead. So do you have your own branded buses? And if you do, do you start with gas powered buses? Do you start with diesel powered buses? Do you go right to electric like what do you do on

Amit Gupta 28:19
Saturday the very simple so, we are a platform. So like for me, the fuel is just basically about to empower the bus today it is it is the gas power tomorrow, electric power, it’s more than happy. So, we are always focusing on that key in any case, by definition, the buses are talking about taking away at least 30 cars off the road. So that way we in any case are contributing towards environment the moment it becomes more of the electric also, then you had a significant amount of the carbon savings. So I think this is one thing which we realize more than the metro and the tier one market where people have slightly more purchasing power where we can people can afford private vehicle. If you go to the tier two market or tier three market or immature four, five markets, the buses are being predominantly you people don’t want to buy a four wheeler or a two wheelers because for them most affordable means if you have to travel for 50 kilometers per tonne or kilometers across the city, do the buses the first port of call while the other train would have been the first port of call but because the trains are not available and they are not available across and that’s where it answer let’s say India has almost like five lakh kilometer network of roads while that rail network is just one lakh kilometer, I’m saying 100,000 kilometers. So there are five times the road network is and that there are towns that divide the bus mobility is going to be the future and people who try to travel for longer distance, how you can actually solve because parents are using it students are using it even people are using for social corporates, people that use it for the business that people have to travel from point A to point B. They don’t have any other means. So they do the they do the business shopping like there’s a lot of countries a lot of cities within the country where The businessman is just traveling from his home to the city to procure the material for a shop. And then in the night, he’s going back. Can we empower all the people can we and those are the regular customers. And that’s why we feel he being a platform that empowers you to work on both the site and where we can not only work out going in the direction of creating a positive impact for the environment, but also make sure that we are creating a positive impact for the society.

Michael Waitze 30:26
That is a great way to end this conversation. I mean, Gupta, a co founder of Google Buzz. That was awesome. Thank you so much for doing this today.

Amit Gupta 30:35
Thank you. My pleasure talking to you.