02 – The Pros of Learning to Build in an Enterprise Segment – Amit Dayal – co-Founder of Amoga

• Being educated as an engineer
• Spending seven years as a generalist before getting into product management
• Working in a large set up and wanting to break out
• Building a B2B learning platform that he ended up selling
• The market you build a product for may not be the market that wants it
• Simplifying repetitive work, increasing transparency and work satisfaction
• Moving away from tracking and micromanagement
• Building proper and effective feedback loops
• Gamification

1. Being in a “Do Whatever It Takes” Environment
2. Going Back in Time, I Would Do It Much Differently
3. People Being Satisfied and Using What You Have Built Is What You Live For

Read the best-effort transcript below (This technology is still not as good as they say it is…):

Michael Waitze 0:14
Hi, this is Michael Waitze. And welcome back to danger got a smiling guest with me. I love when my guests smile. Today, we are joined by Amit Dayal, a co founder at Amoga. I am sure I butchered your name. I am sorry. I mean, thank you so much for doing the show. How are you doing today By the way?

Amit Dayal 0:35
Thank you. Thank you, Michael, for inviting me. It’s a pleasure. I’m doing good. How are you?

Michael Waitze 0:38
I am super. Before we get into the main part of the conversation. Let’s give our listeners a little bit of your background for some context.

Amit Dayal 0:48
Okay, yeah. So I just like most Indians, I’m an engineer plus MBA by background.

Michael Waitze 0:54
What does that mean?

Amit Dayal 0:55
Like most Indian kids, they, you know, grow up and are told to join engineering. You know, there’s a saying that you become an engineer first and then figure out what to do in life. So it’s yeah, kind of it is how it is. So, so yeah, went on to complete my 12 went on to do my engineering, didn’t really get interested into the coding and stuff. And went to the business side, so did my MBA. Yeah, that’s about my educational background. After that, I spent about six, seven years in couple of companies doing different generalist roles, like, says little bit of marketing, a little bit of finance. So So yeah, early, early part of my career was most generalist in nature. And then somewhere in 2014 15, I stumbled into the product management domain, spent three, four years with couple of companies, building SAS products, largely for enterprise. And inland 17, went on to start my own company, again, in the enterprise Learning Management System domain, ran it for about three and a half, four years, it was largely looking at the business side, and the product management, of course, and headline Tech, I had my tech co founder who was looking after the tech and delivery aspects of the firm, somewhere pre pandemic, we decided to sort of move out of that as it wasn’t growing as fast as we wanted it to be. So ended up selling it to a another entity, which is slightly larger in size than us. So it was Yeah, sort of a good exit. Not the best that we would hope. But yeah, some exit. And yeah, since since then, I’m here at omega for last almost eight months now.

Michael Waitze 2:36
Okay, and we’ll get to a mortgage in a second. But I want to share a funny story with you as well. In 2017, it might have been in 2018. But for the first time in my life, I flew to Mumbai, and it was great. But I was there for a reason I was there to attend a startup conference. And the conference was really kind of cool. And one of the guys got up on stage. And he was building or starting to build an edtech company. Right? So educational technology. And, you know, he had been trying to he had been struggling actually to explain to his own family and his own parents what he was doing, right what his job was. And he said, For the foreigners in the audience, I want to I want you to understand, like what their traditional career choices are. For a young Indian graduate, he said, there are really three choices only. He said, You can be an engineer. What was the other one, you can be a doctor? Or you can be a family disappointment. But that seems odd. That’s not me talking. Right? So when you said like, I became an engineer, and then I have to decide what to do. It’s kind of this flipside of the same story, right?

Amit Dayal 3:49
Anyway, I like that a lot. Hopefully, things are changing. When I see like kids who are 10 years younger than me, they do have a lot more choices. And they’re much more clear in what they want to pursue this career. So, so things are changing for good. Yeah,

Michael Waitze 4:02
I mean, you don’t want to have too many choices. But you want to have more than three choices. You want one of those choices, not to be disappointed your family, which is what I feel like I’ve done in my life. You talked about having this generalist role, but then going out and starting your own company. Can we talk a little bit about that process of stopping to work for somebody else, and starting to work for yourself? Because it’s a leap of faith in a way right. What was that? What was the impetus? And what did it feel like for you?

Amit Dayal 4:28
So, so yeah, I mean, a lot of it when I look back is a build up from, you know, from the early five, six years of my career, okay. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I was always a part of a very small three, four member team, right? Trying to launch a new business. So I did that three times in that those six years. Couple of them tanked. One of them still exists. So we were part of a larger entity and but we were part of a group called New Venture Development within that entity. So I call it as a Uh, you know, startup experience, but with the comfort of, you know, a larger entity sort of backing you up and not many risks. So I guess it’s a build up from there, were you working in a small team, you’re starting from a blueprint, trying to executing it to a level where things start to become much more clear, then, you know, executed on to the ground, get your first revenue. So that feeling kind of is a very happy feeling to raise. Right? Yeah. So. And I was always the youngest member of that team. So I was sort of the workhorse, right. So so it was all execution, execution, you know, do whatever it takes kind of the environment. And inevitably, a lot of work needs to fall on me. And I didn’t mind that. You’re you’re 2324. Right. You don’t mind at that age. So not that I meant it now. But yeah, so it was a build up from there. At some stage. Like I said, around 2017, when I met my tech co founders, we got around talking about this idea. And then, you know, one thing led to another, and we were like, you know, why not give it a shot? Otherwise, we’ll just sort of 10 years, fast forward 10 years, we may be regretting that, you know, we wanted to do it, but we couldn’t. So it was, yeah, I mean, that was the background.

Michael Waitze 6:09
Yeah, yeah. So this is actually a real interesting part of entrepreneurship. I always like to ask my guests like, did you intend to be an entrepreneur? Did you intend to run a business on your own? Or was it the case? Like, if your family is a bunch of entrepreneurs, it feels like an obvious path. Right? But for me, that was not necessarily the case. But did you feel like after being the workhorse after looking around, after learning all this stuff, you thought, Hey, maybe I can do this, too? Do you know what I mean?

Amit Dayal 6:34
Yeah, yeah, I think it dries from when you’re used to be sort of taking more responsibilities being more accountable. So eventually, you end up especially if you’re working in a large setup, you want to break out, because, you know, your input are the kind of growth that you expect, the kind of visibility that you expect, largely in a large setup, that becomes slightly things are slow, right, you want to move fast, but there are systems and processes and you know, support functions that kind of create, there are checks and balances. So it’s not as fast as you would want it to be. So hence, there is a tendency to, you know, break out and try to work it out with with, let’s say, you know, take all the decision making it or take all the accountability, take all the responsibility. And so you would want to do that. So

Michael Waitze 7:19
to be fair, when I was working at Morgan Stanley, at the early stages of my career, I kind of did the same thing. I left the main office, to go to Tokyo, which was a much smaller office. Not only for that reason, but a lot for that reason to say, I can kill it here in New York, I can do really well. But there’s so many other people that getting noticed discovery, just like it is in the startup world is hard. Let’s go to a place where discovery is easier. Go there, kill it. And then the discovery possibilities, higher, I think, and it worked for me, I guess in the same way it worked for you, we can spend hours talking about entrepreneurship as well. What was it like selling that first company? Do you know what I mean? Did it feel great? Or did it feel like we could have made this bigger, but somebody else was bigger than we were? So it’s time to get out. But all the stuff we learned that we can then put into the next thing? What was that? Like? Yeah,

Amit Dayal 8:12
yeah, it was sort of the latter. Yeah. I mean, we still feel that we could have made it bigger. But then the kind of resources that we were working on, fortunately, we were bootstrapped, we raise a very small round, we were unable to raise the venture capital, we tried really hard. So some fundamentals were not working. And as first time entrepreneurs, you make a lot of mistakes going back in time, if I were to do it all over again, I would do it much differently. Yeah. So yeah, the good thing is that now what we were realizing is that the efficiency was very low. So we were putting in a lot of input, in terms of hours, money, sweat, blood tears, but the output wasn’t, you know, as, as proportional to the to the input, given some bit of more resources and slightly better ecosystem, or maybe in a different domain with a different positioning of a particular solution that we’re trying to sell it, the efficiency would have been much, much, much higher. So that was the triggering point that, you know, should we continue to spend, you know, next three years and build, try to take it to the next level? Or should we sort of move out, take a step back and, you know, apply the learnings into a fresh domain? So

Michael Waitze 9:17
what was that domain in which you were operating? Initially, what was that company?

Amit Dayal 9:21
So we were building an enterprise grade learning management system. So it is essentially a b2b learning platform where companies can subscribe to our platform and run learning programs for their employees. So it’s called Learning Management System. It’s a fairly defined space, we were doing few things very different as compared to you know, existing solutions. We wanted to be more SMB focused, but we ended up selling to enterprise which, which is a different journey in itself, different story in itself, but what we realize is the true power of building enterprise grid solutions and also, you know, if you operate in an enterprise segment that has its own A lot a lot of pros to be really honest. So yeah,

Michael Waitze 10:03
isn’t this one of the big learnings of entrepreneurship, that sometimes the business that you want to build, and the market that you want to target ends up being different than the market that actually wants your product? Yeah, you know what I mean? So if you look at the SMB market in India, it’s massive, obviously, a country that has one point something billion people and it’s kind of a massive SME SMP market. And yet, if you build for them, it may be the case and I wasn’t there. But it may be the case that it’s so fragmented, and it’s so different. And you know, that every state in India is different, all the different languages, all these different things, that maybe the enterprise’s watch for you are doing and said, Hey, that thing’s kind of cool. We need that. Is that kind of what happened? And boy,

Amit Dayal 10:46
yeah, yeah. To a large extent, yes. So Indian, SMB is market is growing and is huge. But building and selling to SMB is still a challenge. Yeah, for sure. It’s yeah, it’s much better to sort of target us SMB, but then use SMB super crowded, so that has its own challenges. Our main problem was, you know, when we were, you know, selling it to SMBs, the monetization was was wasn’t I mean, it is a you need to put in a lot of capital and acquire a lot of customers, and then hope that after three years, you’ll sort of breakeven, that is a good strategy, if you if if you are backed by venture capital, which we weren’t. So for us, immediate monetization was, you know, and plus, we ended up building the platform, which is far more comprehensive in nature, far more enterprise grade. So it was sort of unfair also to, you know, sell it at $2. When you can kind of focus on large enterprise. Yeah.

Michael Waitze 11:43
Do you think that there was some stuff that you learned about why you couldn’t get VC funding that you now can apply to your new company?

Amit Dayal 11:53
Yeah, a lot of learning really, is first of all, 2015 2016 17 When we were trying so a lot of the VC or funding ecosystem back then was largely focusing ecommerce hyperlocal, like b2c businesses, in India and in India? Yeah. So Software as a Service few takers back then enterprise software as a service comes with its own challenges because you no longer sales cycles, and and you know, depth of technology understanding. So bunch of goods, there were questions around will you be able to sell to enterprise or not? So because selling to Enterprises has its own, it’s hard, it requires its own set of expertise. So longer sales cycle repeatable, we were not able to achieve repeatable sales. So we had a bunch of customers who were very different in nature. So if I were to go back, I would rather focus on you know, one, segment one industry and then go deep there, let’s say become a insurance industry LMS expertise, and then, you know, go to other industries. But what we ended up doing was that we had customers distributed across five different industries. So very varied use cases, if we were not able to demonstrate a repeatable sales or repeatable process. So maybe that that was one of the reasons.

Michael Waitze 13:09
I got it. Yeah. And venture capitalists always like to like to see repeatable repeat, like, yeah, just literally like lather, rinse, repeat. Just keep going, keep going, keep going. Yeah, for them, it’s really hard to see the surface level in five different verticals. And then the ability to grow into those verticals. But the venture capital conversation is, it’s a different conversation, we can have it a separate time. Talk to me about a Moga. Coming out of the sale of your other company, you’re sitting around with your buddies, maybe some of your other co founders, you’re thinking, Okay, we learned a ton of stuff here. We can’t do nothing. Because we know too much in a way, right. And we’ve seen different markets, we built different pieces of technology. All this stuff, we did work, maybe some of the stuff we built we can reuse. I don’t know. Yeah. Right. What was the idea? What is a mogul? What does it do? And how did that start?

Amit Dayal 13:57
So me and my tech co founder from my previous company, we joined here together. Our third co founder is one of my experts, we work together the backend to them 1516 He comes with rich 18 years. So he has built and sold a company, he built that company for over 18 years or $1 in revenue. So he exited that last year, it got acquired by another entity, which is a much bigger entity called Lexotan. So I you know, I got a call from him and he was trying to start another entity. And then, you know, I moved from Delhi to Bangalore, we had a few initial brainstorming sessions and that’s where that’s that’s how the team landed together. So one is, he comes from deep enterprise sales, as well as solutioning background, my tech co founder comes from a tech background and I’m more of a product ops sort of guy, right. So that’s, that’s how we are, the three of us are positioned. So the problem statement at a Moga what what you’re trying to solve is you know how Do you fundamentally make work exciting for employees work to us? The philosophy is that so work is part of integral part of everyone’s life, right? We spend 810 hours per day. So that’s almost 1/3 of your life that you spent in doing work. And yet there is a concept of, you know, Monday blues dreaded Mondays, people looking forward to Fridays, and so on and so forth. Right. And, and a large, so this is, what we have also seen is, you know, a large part of operational team members, people who are, who end up doing repeatable tasks, right, I mean, let’s say, inside sales rep has to do the same thing again, and again, day on day week on week, customer support agent has to do the same thing. So for them beyond a point, it becomes very repetitive and boring and dreaded in nature. So, so that’s, that’s, and when I say like sales and support, these are just two functions, it can be extended to definitely to other functions as well. So yeah, that’s the fundamentally fundamental problem. What we’re trying to address, especially in large companies with, let’s say, 1000 plus employees, where each of these operational teams is 5060 members strong. And they are, they’re being repeatedly told, you know, this is what you have to do. This is what you have to do and without being so how do you make it interesting for them? How do you make it exciting for them? How do you simplify work, so that onboarding is not that big of a challenge? And how do you make it transparent in nature, that from an from employee perspective, if I’m doing something, do I really know that if I do this thing, up to let’s say, expected outcome day on day we can we we, what will I get? What is it with him? Right? What what’s in it for me? What will I get after, let’s say, two months? What will I get good, good after, let’s say, six months? So those are the problem statements that we are, you know, working on,

Michael Waitze 17:02
and 100. But how does technology solve this? And I guess one of the other questions for me is, you talk about 1000 people, companies where the functional teams are 50 people a piece, right? Let’s figure out first, like how technology solves these problems, how it keeps people excited, how it creates transparency, because I think there’s a follow on question to that about like, is this the way work is gonna keep happening over time, but let’s get to that. Second, let’s talk about how tech solves this problem. First of all,

Amit Dayal 17:31
from an employee perspective, if especially and this is sort of the situation as converse with with remote teams, and then pandemic and all, because a lot of time now is being spent on explaining what somebody should do. And then taking, you know, taking stock of the progress, what has been done, right, like four times that and I’ve been guilty of doing that last year, when I was handling 20 member teams remotely. Our idea is that if you if you have a platform, where things are transparent in nature, so we are sort of working on three pillars, one is defining objectives or goals, which are transparent, you know, in nature, everybody can see. So the whole OKR theory, then execution part where if an employee is working on a certain system or a CRM, because these large teams inevitably will be working on some CRM idea that how do you bring whatever they’re doing on a daily basis? How do you transparently bring that data all into a central system, so that somebody does not need to check for status call and check for status, and neither the employee needs to call and tell that this is what I’ve done? Because everything is if you if you have a single source of data data, then it should be, you know, visible in real time. Third is from a from an employee perspective, what what is my growth opportunity? So Can Can my role expectations or my theories on my can be can they are they objectively defined? Are they transparent in nature, whatever I am doing as an employee today, is that progress reflected there is my review that is supposed to happen, let’s say a quarter down the line. Do that based on those objective measures? Or will that be something else? Which is based on some subjective feeling, right? So those are the three broad areas that we are focusing on.

Michael Waitze 19:19
But how does that work? In other words, you create a system, it’s almost like a CRM inside of a CRM, right? In other words, I come into work every day, when I log into my technology. I can look at what my goals and strategy I can look at what my OKRs are, right? So okay, our objectives and key results, if I remember correctly, what that means, right? So I know what that is, every day when I come into work, what I’m trying to achieve, and I know my KPIs are right, as well. So I can aim at my KPIs. Yep. And what you’re saying is that those KPIs are also logged in that there’s the technology that’s created that automates the process of giving the feedback back into that CRM, so that at the end of the day, everybody knows what I’ve done. Kind of thing. because it’s all automated, and because it’s like a CRM into a CRM kind of thing. My performance is just getting logged on a regular basis. So everybody knows what I’m doing. I know what I’m supposed to do. And I can see the progress on my stuff. Does that happen? Like, in real time as well? You don’t? I mean,

Amit Dayal 20:14
yeah, yeah, yeah. And in addition to that, so it’s not only what I am doing it, I can also see how I rank visa vie my peers, right. So there is this whole concept of your effort versus the team’s effort. And it also gives serves as a feedback loop to the manager. So if I’m, let’s say, handling a team of 20 people, and I constantly see that, you know, couple of team members that are missing the mark, while the remaining are sort of doing doing a good job. So they’re, this requires a warrants and intervention. So you can, I can, as a manager, I’ll be able to do a much more, you know, good job of giving a qualitative feedback based on these real time inputs, rather than just waiting for things to fall apart, let’s say six months or a year down the line. And then yeah, I mean, that’s a conversation. Yeah,

Michael Waitze 21:01
yeah. So what is the what is the feedback that you get from these? Obviously, the employers are gonna love this, right. But what’s the feedback you get from employees? Do they feel like they’re being over tract? Are they happy that my feeling on this as well, is that a great employee doesn’t mind if someone’s kind of looking over his shoulder because he or she is killing it anyway? And a bad employee may feel like, oh, no, now they’re gonna No, no.

Amit Dayal 21:28
So we are we are staring away from the tracking category. So there are bunch of solutions, which even you know, track logged in hours, or track, like employees movement. And also we are staying away from that we don’t believe in, you know, micromanagement to that extent. But what what we are sort of targeting is, is that for a particular role, the person who is in that role should be able should have a very clear visibility of what are the defined KPIs? Or what are the different key areas and how they will be tracked using what KPIs so if I’m supposed to, let’s say, if I’m, if I’m a sales rep, and I’m supposed to schedule demos, that’s a very demonstrable output. Right? Rather than somebody like the manager constantly asking, calling and trying to figure out that you know, how many demos you have done? Or how many demos have been scheduled? Or how many calls have you made? Those kinds of things, because they’re anyway getting logged in CRM data, like in some CRM or data, so it’s not tracking per se? I think what employees like is that, you know, there is a now a transparency, so it’s the same. We’re calling it a dashboard. It’s the same dashboard that is visible to me, as well as my manager. So there is no subjectivity. It’s a single source of truth. So there is no, like, you know, he said, she said, kind of a scenario here. So whereas claiming that I’ve done the work, and the manager is claiming, you have not done or vice versa? I mean, we have the situation both ways, right? Sure. Sure. So. So that’s, that’s what we’re trying to achieve. Yeah.

Michael Waitze 22:59
So one of the interesting things to me is if it’s if you’re gathering all this data, around OKRs KPIs, and some logging stuff, I guess there’s there multiple sides to this, but does the data that you’re gathering create insights to make the management process and then the creation of the OKRs actually more efficient and more targeted, so that the, because I can create OKRs that are relevant, but if I know what you’re doing and how you’re doing, if you’re doing it? Well, I can then create new a OKRs for you based on that data, figuring out like, you know, what I mean? So does that get automated too? And then on the flip side, as an employee, can I use the ammonia system to say, Okay, I need to be better organized to achieve these OKRs. And KPIs. Does the system also helped me get better organized to?

Amit Dayal 23:47
Yeah, the past performance? Does, you know, serve as a feedback loop, because if you read the OCR theory, that it’s very difficult to nail it down to perfection in the first pass our target companies or the, the prospective companies that we are talking to are sort of, you know, trying it for the first time, or maybe, you know, they’ve tried in the past and sort of trying it for the second time. Right and failed. So okay, so yes, totally agree with you that, you know, this, this does serve as a feedback loop. And on the second question, yes, we do have, you know, obviously, if I can track, like I said, you know, it’s a contract my progress as well, as I can see, where am I? visa vie? My team members are like, you know, if, if not the absolute, but I get the relative rate, you know, I’m above median, or below below median. So that serves as a feedback loop for an individual as well, where they need to improve.

Michael Waitze 24:42
Is this tied into other systems? Right. In other words, when I think about software and software development, I spent a lot of time talking about people that do this thing called the Mac Alliance, right. So all these things get broken down into microservices. That’s what the M is for the A’s for API first The C is for cloud native and the H is for headless you think about this when you’re developing these systems as well.

Amit Dayal 25:07
Yeah, definitely, definitely, like I said, so we, the team founding team comes with a with a deep experience in building solutions for enterprise. And when you’re selling to mid to large enterprises, you inevitably have to integrate with a lot of existing systems. So it has to be built that way. And that’s where our, what we believe is, that’s where our core strength is, because, you know, we’re not building a point solution, which solves a certain pain point, and it resides with your 15 Other applications as as yet another system, we’re sort of logging into activity, we are more looking at it as a platform, which can integrate with your existing systems. And one of the changes, you know, our data platform is based on a low code platform, where we are hoping and claiming and, you know, this is our claim that we can integrate with your existing systems in a very short amount of time, like in a matter of days, rather than weeks. Because your process flows, your connectors, and your, you know, defining KPIs, and all of those can be easily done via drag and drop process, Flow Builder, form builders and all of those things. So that’s

Michael Waitze 26:15
super interesting. So are you suggesting this low code, no code? I mean, again, we can spend hours talking about this as well. But are you suggesting then that the platform is so easy to use, that even a line manager can just go wait a second, I need to connect this thing to that thing. And maybe we’re using something specific over here, we’ll just connect that in that they can do that on their own because of the low code nature of the platform as well.

Amit Dayal 26:36
Yes. So so we have got we call them citizen developers, like business people who who know the, the logic? And yeah, I mean, the the most technical you may need is writing SQL queries. I mean, if you can do that, in some form or shape, but we do have our, you know, implementation engineering team who can sort of help us help the team, the customer do that? Also, but yet, it’s very doable.

Michael Waitze 27:01
Is there a gamification aspect of this to do you know what I mean? Like, really, if you want to make it more fun, just think like, do you mean like, in two more days, if you do this thing, you get a free coke kind of thing? You know what I mean? Yeah,

Amit Dayal 27:10
not from that point of view. But what we have the gamification angle that we are building is that so in any role, there is always a career path within an organization that surely join, let’s say, as an associate manager, and then after 18 months or two years, you will become a manager, right? Fortunately, unfortunately, people nowadays don’t want to wait 18 months or two years, right? They want to know what’s in it for me in next three months. So we are we’re introducing this or we are proposing this that you know, that entire 18 month cycle, or 18. When track can that be broken down into six small levels of three months, each with the defined input and define output? And then can we have rules which either automate a progression from level one one level to another, or at least make the candidate eligible to move on to the next level? If not, let’s say automatically do that. That’s also again, configurable in nature. Gamification, one is in that expect that I’m today I’m in level three, and I want to move to level four, then the bunch of things that I need to do consistently, let’s say over next 3456 weeks, right? Yeah, the one that you mentioned is, you know, can that add on some points, which then you can redeem later? We can think in that direction, as well.

Michael Waitze 28:29
Are you surprised sometimes by the feedback that you get from the individual companies with whom you’re working, right? In other words, you want to implement this, you want to make it easier for management to manage the team? So you also want people to be more engaged and to enjoy their jobs more? Is there some kind of joy that you get when people come back and say, You know what, I didn’t think this was going to work so well. But actually, Team A is way happier, because they feel like, now they know where they’re going. You know what I mean? Yeah,

Amit Dayal 28:53
that’s what we aspire, I mean, that’s what you live for. Right? I mean, you you build something, you put it out there for people to use, and then people come back and give you happy feedback. That’s what I believe like the product management team, or the pm function is sort of strive for living for right. Yeah. So if you want to get people to use what you have built, be you want people to be happy and give you positive feedback.

Michael Waitze 29:18
Are you using him? So before I let you go, Is this is this a business that’s raised money that wants to raise money? Like, what’s the status there? You said, You bootstrapped the other one you learned, you know that maybe it didn’t grow the same way you wanted it to? So the VC money wasn’t available? How do you feel about a mogul right now? And like, what’s the status?

Amit Dayal 29:34
So we are very early in our journey? Like, like I said, we started about seven, eight months back. Fortunately, we have a bit of a capital to take us to this stage. And now we’re looking at a first official round. We have started the process. The idea was to build something demonstrable, prove God get some data points against our you know, early hypothesis that this will work or not work. So we’ve done a successful POC with, you know, four or five customers we’re looking to get here. We’re selling it to other companies as we speak. So this is the right time where we, we have started approaching the venture capitalist or the industry, right? Yeah, yeah. We started approaching for investments. So

Michael Waitze 30:17
you use this OKR and KPI philosophy inside of a Moga. Do you not? I mean, like, are you using your own software as well to manage your own team? So they don’t have 50 people on them yet? But again, just being able to test it out as would be kind of cool. Yeah.

Amit Dayal 30:31
So we had about 45. Overall. Really? already? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so, so one of our small marketing three member marketing team, so we tried it with Dev, but a dev team is it was we didn’t? Yeah, I mean, the marketing team is sort of using it. We have to build that system to manage our own OKRs.

Michael Waitze 30:55
Yeah, that’s kind of cool. Okay, what’s the best way for people to get in touch with you if they want to learn more about a mug or if they want to just try out the product or if they want to help you raise money?

Amit Dayal 31:05
Great. My email id is fairly simple. amit@amoga.io. Okay, and my phone number is also I can sort of see it. Yeah, let me quickly put it in the show notes. Yeah.

Michael Waitze 31:18
Okay. Amit Dayal, co founder of Amoga, thank you so much for coming on the show and doing this. I really appreciate your time today.

Amit Dayal 31:25
Thank you, Michael. Thank you. Thanks for inviting me. I really enjoyed it.