EP 20 – Changing Their Lives Forever – Dr. Jasmin B Gupta – Co-founder and CEO at LXME

Read the best-effort transcript below (This technology is still not as good as they say it is…):

Michael Waitze 0:03
Hi, this is Michael Waitze and welcome back to India GameChangers. Today we are joined by Dr. Jasmin B Gupta, a Co-founder and the CEO at LXME. I think I got that right. Jasmin, thank you so much for coming today. How are you doing, by the way?

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 0:16
Hey, I’m doing great. Michael, how are you?

Michael Waitze 0:19
I could not be better. I could not be better. How does that sound? Yeah. Okay, Jess, I’m just gonna call you Jasmin from Ahmed, thank you so much for coming here. I really appreciate it. And just to give us some context, I’d like to get a little bit of your background if that’s okay.

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 0:34
Okay. I have been a girl your bank all throughout and being like 18 to 20 years into banking. I started with HDFC Bank and then Kotak Mahindra bank, these are some of the leading banks. Yeah. And of course, they were super duper training ground for me to prepare me for this, I would say it was Kotak Mahindra bank, I was National Head for digital banking iniquitous bank, that’s when I think do banking actually took birth in India, I would say during the pandemic, when people had no choice. But to move to digital. I think that’s when new banking actually started in India. 2001 In India, for neobanks got launched out of which two were launched by me. So one was new X, which is like the fastest growing new bank for millennials in India. And another one is a credit bank, new bank called for you. So while I was already in this space, from the banking side, I realised that you know, the FinTech space is coming up really well. And it’s going to grow leaps and bounds in the next 10 years in India. And that’s why I think I took a decision that this is the right time right place to take the jump and get into the FinTech revolution, because that’s that’s the next big revolution that India will witness going forward in the space. So that’s what brings me to LXME. And yes, this is just one part of the story, Michael, the other part of the story is why LXME, because it’s India’s first new bank for women, okay. Now, while I was working with whether HDFC or Kotak bank, I was always very much interested and involved in a lot of women specific activities. So my first talk was about how do you live your legacy? When I speak about a lot of activities related to women that I used to do as a side hustle, I am the national president for Financial Inclusion Council of women’s Indian Chamber of Commerce and Industry. So even there, I used to do a lot of women centric activities. So I think LXME I was the right time to merge my passion into my profession. And I think that’s what happened that, you know, my side hustle actually got converted into my mains dream profession with LXME,

Michael Waitze 3:05
can we just get an overview of where you think women fit into the financial system in India, right, because having a bank or a digital bank or Neo bank set up specifically for women? I’m just curious why it needs to be separated out. And I’ll give you my own opinion in a second. But I’m curious what it looks like, from your perspective, right? You’re there, you’re on the ground. And you’ve been involved in this space, particularly in the financial inclusion, which is something that’s really close to my heart as well, kind of across the board. We can talk about that, too. But why is it necessary to have a bank just for women? What’s the difference?

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 3:37
So if you look at the generic platforms that are available, the digital platforms available in India, the women penetration in these platforms is less than 10%. The reason is, and of course, women is a large target segment 48.5% of our population in India is women, right? In spite of that women are not seen on a most of these digital financial platforms. And the reason is, they don’t really feel comfortable with all the financial products that are offered. And to my mind, Michael, I always feel that since ages women have stayed away from money, while we say LXME is the Goddess of wealth in India, women and wealth have always had a very distant relationship since ages. Okay. I think that is one reason and second is because women have stayed away for all of these years. They are not very comfortable with the way the financial world acts and behaves right now. Most of the financial products that exist in India have been made keeping men in mind. So this gender agnostic approach is not necessarily the right approach when it comes to specifically addressing the financial needs as well as the emotional preferences of women because for them Then the mental a lot. Can you dig

Michael Waitze 5:02
deeper in this for me? Because again, I’m not disagreeing with you. But I really want to know what it looks like, right? Like, I can’t stand in your shoes, but I’m relying on you to tell me when I look at a digital platform as a woman, I look at it and say, I don’t feel comfortable. Because why what’s the blocking point? There are so that I can better understand and that we can dig deeper into that as well. Is that okay?

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 5:22
Yeah, of course, it’s okay. So I’ll give you some examples also. So we have a community, which is called a being LXME community. Now, in this community, women, it is a very safe place for women to talk about money. And money is not something very easy for women to discuss. I mean, just imagine for women sitting in a coffee shop, the last thing that they will ever talk about is money or investments, or, you know, those are never ever the topic of discussions. So this community where is specifically for discussing money related issues, money related problems, money related questions, and that’s where they feel safe and ask a lot of questions discuss their issues. We have money coaches who guide them, we have peer to peer learning that happens on the community where women guide other women, you know, to address and deal with their money issues. And that’s where we realise that the financial literacy ratio of women is extremely low. And before we even get them into the financial world, we actually need to address this gap. And we need to take a lot of steps to educate them to bring them up the curve, because they are not confident enough to manage their money, they will never ever try most of the financial platforms. And I think that’s why LXME is very focused on education. There are a lot of financial fitness bootcamp that we keep on doing on the app itself, where women come learn about how to manage money, attend the sessions, we have micro learning courses, we have gamified learning, where we play games to make them learn finance, whether it’s a housing or a word URL, or, you know, a very innovative gamified learning experience. And the whole purpose of doing all of these activities on the community is to ensure that women learn, and then take the next step.

Michael Waitze 7:21
So what’s the entry point? In other words, if you’re looking for a way to tell somebody whose financial literacy is closer to zero than it is to one, right, just let’s use a very simple binary scale. And you say, I want to attract women to the platform so that they can learn about x? What is the first thing that we want to teach? What’s the entry point? Is it saving? Is it investment? It’s not venture capital? It’s not private equity? What is it? And then how do you do it? I don’t want to know the gamification per se, because that’s a different topic. Like what’s the first thing that somebody needs to know so that they can start feeling comfortable about that? Because for me, right, I always say, you want to walk into a room you feel comfortable asking any question? Right. So this is part of the problem, I think, but what is that entry point?

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 8:05
Yeah, so I think it starts with the very basics of money management. And so we have levels of courses. So of course, you start with the basic learning courses, where it is all about money and savings. And then you gradually move forward to learning about mutual fund investments, fixed deposits, investments, so very, very basic, I think stocks, and something which is very complicated for women, of course, comes last in the entire investment journey of them. And it’s not just about learning, Michael, learning, and then not taking any action means no learning

Michael Waitze 8:41
exactly. It’s mindless, in a way, right?

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 8:43
It’s meaningless, because then I think whatever you’ve learned, you need to actually put it into practice to be able to actually get the benefit. And hence we ask women to start small. And hence the entry point, your question the entry point, or starting their journey of whatever they’ve learned is as small as 100 rupees, yeah. So they can start investing in mutual fund portfolios with as small as 100 rupees, of course, we will have the savings account also. So they will learn how to save how to manage debit cards, how to manage credit cards, how to make payments, digital payments, and all that. But over and above that what we have is my crew investments offered on the platform. That is one thing. Second thing is we make it very easy for them. Now, for example, in India, Michael, there are 2500 mutual fund schemes. Just imagine a woman who’s never ever dealt with money, and then again, you know, she has to make a choice out of that 2500 universe. I think it’s impossible for her just impossible. We have curated gold based portfolios. Now, for example, and of course, we have all types of women on the platform. So there are mothers that are daughters, there are wives that are salaried. There are self employed, there are professionals, all kinds of women. And of course, their requirements needs are different. Now, just let’s take an example of a mother. A mother has a goal of child education, for example, then we have a child education portfolio, where she accesses the calculator, she figures out, okay, I want my son to study here, I need so much amount. This is what I need to put aside every day or maybe every month, and she plans her investment journey accordingly.

Michael Waitze 10:31
Can I ask you this, because she’s not doing this alone. And maybe I’m making a presumption that I shouldn’t make. But if a mother has a child, there’s a father somewhere. So is there some kind of encouragement on the platform as well to like work together as a family or as a unit? I don’t even know the right terminology to use anymore, as opposed to doing it alone in a vacuum.

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 10:50
Absolutely. So we call it a women first platform for families. So of course, you know, it’s like, you know, when you educate a woman, you educate the entire family. So it’s about reaching to the families, of course, but we want women to take active part in managing the family finances as well. Right. And a very nice survey we had done, Michael, this year itself, early March, LXME and women’s power survey, and we got some very exciting results. In fact, surprising results, I would say 73% Women don’t make any investment don’t save more than 20% of their income, shocking 49% Women are not even aware about any investments made in their name. So someone is investing on their behalf, but they have no clue of what it is, or how it is where it is. Why is that? Exactly? Because I think the reason is mostly women managing finances is left to the men of the house. It can be the husband, that can be the father that can be the brother, but mostly women, and even earning women. So we have so many women on our platform who is doing good in her career. She may be an IT professional, she may be doing great in our pharma industry. But when it comes to money, okay, it’s better handled by the men of the family.

Michael Waitze 12:12
Can I ask you this? Is this a cultural thing, because in the two cultures in which I’ve spent most of my time actually three, to be fair, in the United States, like the man pretends like he’s alpha, but gives all the money to the woman who kind of manages it, and then passes it back to the guy who then pretends he’s alpha, again, in Japan, where I lived for 20 something years, most women and I’ll probably get in trouble for this. But more men are like out earning women, it’s probably changed over the last 10 years. But that money is managed by the woman in the house. Like that’s just and the guy just gets 1000 yen or 2000 yen every week or whatever to live his life. And in Thailand, it’s kind of the same way the women in Thailand definitely have agency over how the money goes. Is there a cultural part of this as well in India? And how does that get addressed on the platform?

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 12:54
Let’s do a very, super impressed that you lived for 37 years in Japan. I love Japan. I’ve been read two or three times. I just love the country. And of course, it’s so very, very different. It’s really from India. So there was this student exchange programme which we used to have between Bucha University and Autobahn Gakuen University in Osaka. Okay, so that’s where through the programme, I think I spent three, four months in the university. And of course, I learned Japanese and all those things. And yes, I think the observation that you’ve made is so super correct. Because if I have to compare both the cultures, it’s it’s poles apart. Yeah. But even in Japan, I think the vote a lot of women who used to play homemakers, who you I mean, willingly used to be taking care of the home, but I think they were already involved in a lot of financial activities, they were still very advanced in terms of managing things digitally. In India, yes, there is a cultural reason. Now, as a society, a woman when she gets married, she has to go to her husband’s house, okay. Now here, in India, of course, things are changing, but things are changing very, very gradually, very slowly. And hence, the woman is the one who has to address to the norms of the family in which she’s going into, and she has to accept the culture and traditions that is delorey still existing in India, which is where the woman’s began, the daughters parents have to really give gifts so even if they don’t call it dowry is still dowry because they give gift cards and money, jewellery and lots of stuff is given to the parents of the groom, to ensure that the daughter gets married and it still exists, whether the people are educated or not. Whether they are in tier one, or whether they are living in tier four, it still exists. So since ages, I’m saying that things are changing, but they are changing very gradually. And because of that, I think a lot of These cultural issues also needs to be taken into consideration when you really want to offer something which is financial and digital for women. Yeah.

Michael Waitze 15:10
Do you think I don’t know the right way to ask this question, but are you trying to innovate around the financial products as well? Or are you just trying to create different access and entry points and comfort for women to be able to access similar financial products? Right, you, you mentioned this idea of, I want to get the number right, approximately 2500 mutual fund schemes. But these were set up before you started doing stuff for the most part, is there a place for you to then create your own mutual fund business as well at scale that creates different types of portfolios? If we can dig that deep? Or are you just trying to recreate the same thing with a different experience? Or both? Do you don’t I mean,

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 15:48
yeah, so I think we are trying to create different products, different experience, and of course, a different approach. I would say, the reason is, LXME is not a product centric, you know, nothing wherein women can come and take different or buy different products. And they feel that okay, I have these products. LXME is one stop shopping experience, we would say it’s a mobile first digital platform that we are creating. So it’s a very platform centric approach. Got it? Well, we have the banking tech, the lending tag, the payment stack, the wealth, tech, all integrated into one, to give a seamless financial experience to women. And now when we say this, it’s like, we don’t want to offer them everything. But we want to offer them something which is very curated for them. Something which means a lot for them. You know, even in terms of product, when we say financial products, what are the things that women look forward to, let’s take an example of a debit card, a debit card may come with a lot of features, which may appeal to men, but the features that appeal to men may not necessarily appeal to women. But women say for example, roadside assistance as a feature makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And those offers on dining, shopping, of course, makes lots of sense. So I think there are very, very key features. Now for example, if you have a digital savings account along with that, if you’re also offering a bundled free health checkup along with the account, I think it appeals a lot to women as a segment. Because for women that own health is the last priority. And again, I would like to go back to the survey that we had done 63% of the women prioritise Family and Children’s needs and financial needs over their own needs of financial security or starting a business or their own retirement. So their needs actually take us backseat. So you know, even for motivations for you know, financial involvement, I think the motivations are also family led, and hence, these are the things that we can curate and offer to women. I think it makes a lot of sense for their well being. And it’s not just the financial well being it’s also their the insurance. Now let me tell you, this survey was done post pandemic, and it said 56% Women don’t have insurance Wait, life. I mean, after the pandemic,

Michael Waitze 18:30
yes, but that’s after the pandemic. So this is another thing that I want to talk about. Because when you do talk about financial services, I run the largest insurer tech podcast in Asia, not even close, right? We’ve done hundreds of episodes here. Yeah, 182 plus 50. Other ones, like a lot of episodes where we talk to insurance executives and insurtechs that are trying to innovate in the insurance space. It’s so interesting to me, and I want to ask you this, if you’re building a platform, and if women are saying to you in this survey that they’re prioritising other people’s well being before their own, particularly if it’s family oriented, which is fascinating to me, regardless, and we know that insurance penetration on the life side on the health side in India is lower than it is outside of India, particularly in the United States and in Europe. How can the platform be used to connect to other platforms? Yeah, that prioritise insurance for women, which is a very different way than prioritising insurance for men, if that makes sense, right? Because this is really important. I did an episode of India Game Changer with a gentleman who said to me, and I’m sure he was generalising a little bit but like every Indian is just like one medical emergency away from poverty. And insurance should be able to help disintermediate that a little bit.

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 19:40
Yeah, so I think there’s a lot of opportunity there. And in the platform, of course, we have the personalization engine, which actually gives out a lot of insights on women personas and their needs and you know, the insurance needs as well. And I think one way to address it is you know, if women are definitely You’re not going for insurance insurance per se, the best thing is to, you know, underlay it with various products across the platform so that if they are going for one, at least they get insurance along with that main product. So I think a lot of sashay insurance products are coming up. And they are small insurance ticket size products, but they are very need based and I think able to achieve success there, I think it has a lot of value. Like for example, someone is going for a health checkup and we give out a trigger for a health insurance. Someone is going and booking travel tickets, and we say, okay, please take the travel insurance, it’s important for you, you know, so lifecycle now we, we have the product lifecycle at every stage of the lifecycle, how much insure the woman is, and then I think we can link it up to the life stage of the woman. And I think a lot can be done here. And see the reason why, of course, we have already impacted one leg plus women and the idea of for LXME is that we want to impact 20 million women in next three to five years. Now, with all of these women on the platform, we definitely don’t want to create our own insurance products. But we definitely want to offer it on the platform. And of course, we offer it right away as well. That is another concept of insurance that we have decided to also go ahead with in LXME is again, making a lot of sense for the women community is the past model, wherein we make women, the advisors for insurance and within the community guide other women advise the women poach other women to take insurance. So it has a network effect within the community. And it also gives employment opportunity to the women. Now there are a lot of

Michael Waitze 21:50
sorry, have you heard of Stella insurance? You will have to No, no, actually no is a better answer. The reason why I bring it up is it’s run by this woman called Sam white. And Sam’s contention here is that and the tagline for the company is unapologetically for women. So it’s an insurance business built in London for global but to just write insurance policies for women, so they have a carrier that underwrites for them, but they want to build policies for women because they feel like you do that the outlook for insurance for a woman is different than it is for a man. And because of that the way it gets sold the way it gets packaged. And the way you mentioned this, right, you called it sachet, but we another term for this is embedded. Right? So covered genius does a great job of embedding insurance and products. And if you embed it into products that people are buying, then they’ll have it by definition. So this is really the that’s the only reason why I asked you about it, right? Because if you’re making a platform to platform connection, there are platforms out there that can serve this. And that seems like something that would be interesting. Sorry, go ahead. I interrupted you. Yeah.

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 22:52
So of course, I think thanks for sharing that, Michael. I’ll definitely research that. And yeah, so the other point that I was trying to make is it gives economic opportunities also to demand. Yeah, because there are a lot of women who, you know, maybe homemakers that they have fit for us during the day when they want to use it for some real good economic activity. And I think it makes a lot of sense for them on the community to start a second income, or maybe the first income for some, yeah.

Michael Waitze 23:20
Do you think that the blogs that you’re writing and I’m curious how you come up with these topics? Are they generated from the women with whom you’re interacting, where they ask a question that they’re maybe not comfortable asking in public? And you say, Don’t worry, we’ll write something about it. Is it vice versa? We just say Every Woman Should Know this thing? Or is it some combination of both of them? You know what I mean?

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 23:39
It’s combination of both. So of course, the community is a very interactive space. And women ask really stupid and silly questions. But we, of course, they ask it because they feel free and confident. Right? I mean, we make it really safe for them to ask. And I think, yes, the blogs that we put up are based on our research on what we want women to learn, and also based on a lot of questions that they ask on the community. Yeah,

Michael Waitze 24:09
I mean, what do you think drives engagement? And how important is that to you to keep that conversation open? Right? From my perspective, one of the reasons why I do what I do is because I want to engage people in a conversation so that I can learn something and that people can learn from the stuff that I learned. But you’re building this community, you said one lack of people, is that right? Is that 100,000? Do I have that number? Right? It’s a lot of people. Yeah. And if you want to get to 20 million, it’s a great base to build from to get there. What’s the engagement level with the stuff that you’re writing? And then how does that feed into people staying on the platform, and then actually doing the learning that you said, and then creating that activity that gets them into the financial part of the business? Yeah,

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 24:47
yeah. So yes, I think engagement is the key. And for that, we do a lot of things. So one thing is gamification, wherein we and of course, we are still in the process of improvising. and adding a lot of gamification elements to what we have right now, to keep it very exciting and interesting for women to do a lot of activities. That is one thing. So second thing is when we do these sessions on the app, the engagement levels are extremely high there. So that’s something that we want to do on a continuous basis, we work, you know, innovate around how we can make it more interesting. So I think gamification has worked for us, and it continues to work for us. Second thing is the money coaches, and these money coaches are experts, they are subject matter experts. So the money coaches are someone that, you know, people in the community look forward to connect. And we have a q&a session, we have an open house session, we have, you know, a lot of discussions with money coaches, which is a lot, it’s knowledge sharing, these two, three things worked. And I think ultimately, it’s the content that makes people stay with you, if they feel that content that they get on the platform is worth it. Now, whether they are real. So whether they are posts or whatever blogs, I think the content is what makes people stay. And of course, the quality of the products that we offer is also extremely important. And hence, we are actually enhancing the entire basket of our products, because we want more and more women to come on the platform. And there are a lot of women who have different needs. So I think the best thing is that we are able to meet the needs of all kinds of women, for all life stages. Yeah,

Michael Waitze 26:46
if you have women, and I’m just picking a number, right in their late 20s and early 30s, who are coming on the platform, and it’s their first introduction to let’s say, the financial world, you’re providing them with the tools for financial literacy, whether it’s through gamification, or through the blogs in the real estate, you already talked about? Do you think it’s necessary to go even younger, and start with girls, so that by the time they are career women, mothers, family runners, and getting into their own ability to run finances, that they’re already familiar with this as well?

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 27:22
Yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense. And hence, we do apart from what we do on the platform. We also do a lot of things beyond the platform, I would call it digital boot camps, or, you know, they are physical events where we actually go to universities, and a lot of women organisations do conduct these boot camps where they learn about money very early on. Now, you know, it’s like, we all earn our college degrees, we learn the master’s degrees, we learn a lot of things. But the first time when you start earning, oh, we never knew we had to pay so many taxes. We never knew how to plan for tax management. So these are the things that you will learn first time, because money management was never something that you learned in school or college, practically. So I think it makes this education is important. And yes, we definitely do try to reach out to women across, you know, to Gen Z, and millennials are our core target segment. And I think Gen Z and millennials are also digitally savvy, I mean, Gen Z are, of course, digital natives. And it’s very easy for them to, you know, start using these platforms. And I mean, if you read the data, 60 million women in India right now, use some of the other form of digital payments. So it’s not a small number. So it’s a huge number to target. And I think that’s our first target segment, because we definitely want women to be there on the app. And we definitely want women to, of course, be digital savvy to start this journey. So I think that’s also critical. And I think as millennials, and Gen Z, the population of course increases our target segment is expanding. Yeah.

Michael Waitze 29:15
When you go to build you the digital interface, right, the user interface, the user experience, like one of the questions that I like to ask new companies a lot is are you using reference points from other successful platforms and stuff like that to build the experience that you have? But for you, you’re saying as the first bank or the first sort of financial services business for women in India, that may not be a reference point for you, you’re shaking your head, right. So this is what’s interesting to me, if you think the experience should be different. How do you determine what that user interface right, which is the driving force behind the engagement and everything else you’re doing and the user experience should be? Are you just like massively A B testing? And is that fun for you?

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 29:53
Yes, of course. I think that’s a very good thing because of course, you don’t need to look anywhere else and benchmark Have yourself anywhere else. And I think to answer your question best, I think LXME is a neobank, which is built by women. So largely, the understanding of women by women is extremely high. When you user interface, you know, we really know that women would definitely like this 80% of the employees and LXME are women. And they bring a lot of creativity, a lot of empathy, a lot of you know, that women instinct, and that intuition into play into work. And I think that, that really works, because I think that’s why the content that we create is so appreciated. And of course, I think, as we go digital, the entire artificial intelligence, the entire personalization that we’ve built, and of course, those are the things that we definitely need. But I think men, it’s a neobank by women, for women of women, I think it just works.

Michael Waitze 30:59
Can I ask you this, too? So I like to look at tipping points. And I’ll tell you why. Because they bring me joy, right? In other words, if you’re teaching somebody something that you think is really important for their lives, or for their existence, you want to see them come in and then come out the other side with all this knowledge. And like you said, the activity that proves that they know or to do you see tipping points, I’m just looking at you building a community, you have coaches, you do these offline to online things that universities can you feel when somebody finally realises like, I think at least I’m getting some of this? Do you know what I mean? And is there joy in that for you in the team as well? Yeah,

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 31:34
there is a lot of joy. And I would say beyond joy, it gives a lot of satisfaction. Yeah, that whatever you are building, whatever you are doing, is making a difference. It is making a big impact in the lives of your customers. And I think that satisfaction is important. And when you make women financially independent, I think you are changing their lives forever, completely. Yeah, because then they have the power to take decisions, then they have the power, they have a lot of say, I mean, I’ll just share a few stories. Woman, of course, I will not share the name, but she’s a part of the electronic community. And she started learning, she actually could help her family out of rough waters because of what she had learned on the app, financially. And now the kind of respect she gets in her family. And she had become the financial advisor in the family and her husband and in laws and all the look upon her as a financial guide to you know, for the entire family. Now, that’s the change. It’s not just affecting her. It’s impacting the entire family. And there are many stories, like for example, another I would say she, she said she never used to manage money. Her mother was a single parent. And she always admired that, you know, very nice, my mother, she she actually run the house only on the pension amount. And when she got married, her husband was the one who was managing everything. But when she learned, say, for example, the golden budgeting rule of 5030 20. She said this is the first time on LXME, I learned something like this. I never knew this. But now I’ve taken charge. Now she’s the owner of her own house. So I think the feeling and the power that a woman feels when she goes through this transition is immense. And I think the impact and for us the impact on 20 million women or 60 million women is going to be so much satisfying. I think that you know, it’s it’s the whole purpose of what you’re building.

Michael Waitze 33:37
That’s the way I want to end Dr. Jasmin B Gupta, a Co-founder and CEO of LXME, that was awesome. Thank you so much for sharing and thank you as well for sharing at the end some of these stories. I really appreciate it.

Dr.Jasmin B Gupta 33:48
Thank you

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