India GameChanger welcomed Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan, the CEO of Thryve Digital Health for a really interesting covnersation. Bala’s journey, from a chemist and motorsport enthusiast to a leading figure in digital health, offers a wealth of insights into building a future-focused healthcare enterprise.

Some of the insights Bala offered included:

  • The interplay between passion and profession and the multifaceted nature of leadership
  • The importance of creating a culture that encourages speaking up, innovation, and collaboration
  • Creating an ecosystem that supports better clinical outcomes and enhances patient care
  • Healthcare excellence and a desire to impact both the industry and the individuals within it
  • An insistence on the necessity of daily learning

Read the best-effort transcript below (This technology is still not as good as they say it is…):

Michael Waitze 0:05
Hi, this is Michael Waitze. And we are back on India GameChanger. Today we have Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan, the CEO of Thryve Digital Health. Bala, thank you so much for joining me. So I really appreciate your time before we get to the main part of our conversation, let’s spend some time giving our listeners a little bit of your background for some context.

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 0:25
Thanks for having me on Michael love the show. Well, I am a chemist by basic education with a couple of degrees in ID and in business administration. I’m a classical singer. In my past life motorsports enthusiast, I love to call myself a voracious reader, but at least I used to be, I carry at least 3000 ebooks on my iPad probably gone through 1000 of them in the past decade, which is way less than what I wanted to. But I’m a digital health enthusiast at this point of time a lot. I love spending time with my customers in trying to put together healthcare solutions that truly impact the health journey and care outcomes for millions. And of course, I love spending time with my family. Yeah,

Michael Waitze 1:06
all very important things. Can I ask you this? The motorsport thing is actually really interesting to me. And I frankly, I don’t think it’s that different than the music thing, which I don’t think it’s something you hear a lot. But I want to make an equivalency. Music is very technical and very mathematical. And a lot of people don’t talk about it in these terms, right? It has order. And it also has logic, if one note is out of place in the same way that like if one character is out of place in code, it’s just going to break. It’s the same thing. But motorsport to me is also very technical. Like I love watching the racing, but I’m much more interested in how are they optimizing the engine? How can they do the wheel changes so fast? Like that’s the part that really interests me. Can you talk about what interests you about that stuff? And how you see those things as almost the same or similar?

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 1:46
Absolutely. Let’s take the music. First. I come from a family of musicians. So music wasn’t new to me, it was sort of expected that I get into music. And we’re talking about South Indian classical music here. So very early on in I was learning music I was performing. And I had the opportunity to go on stage with some greats of the business much before I even understood what it actually takes to be on stage with such greats. This is hindsight. Now I feel very, very fortunate that I was able to do that. But then life happens when you’re in between dreams, I guess. And I changed professions. Music is a tough business to be in as well. You are right. The kind of dedication and commitment that you need to honing your craft is something that is stupendous. And a lot of people outside of music don’t realize that. I guess the same with motorsport. In my young, crazy days I used to race bikes. And what interests me are exactly what you mentioned, the kind of dedication to the craft, not just the physical ability to race around if you take Formula One, all of these guys are in the top point naught naught 1% of racing skills in the world. But the gaps between the winner and the person who comes last is so big. And you look at the Y equals function of x. And the x’s in Formula One ranges from physical fitness to technical strategy to happen standards on that day and luck and weather conditions and team strategy. Everything else. It’s actually amazing that they spend probably nine months off the track working on things that help them deliver for three months on the track. That’s kind of like life, right. 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration kind of thing. Exactly.

Michael Waitze 3:39
And can I make another point to I’m pretty sure you’ll agree with this. I like to say that everyone’s an overnight success. 10 years later, I think one of the other things that people don’t realize about let’s talk about f1 racing, right? Is that these guys start driving go karts. I didn’t know this either. They really do it like they’re five and six years old. So this idea of like waking up one day and just saying I want to be an f1 racer, when I’m 23. It’s just not gonna happen. But it’s, again, it’s a metaphor for life. And the one other thing that you hinted up, but I’ll say explicitly is no one succeeds alone is the other thing that I like to say, which means that like Hamilton can be the greatest driver in the world. But if total wolf doesn’t take that Mercedes team, right, and now it’s Red Bull, which is the best thing, but if your total wolf doesn’t take that team and turn it into like a well oiled machine, it doesn’t matter. And I think again, that’s a metaphor for life as well. In other words, you can be amazing at anything, but if you don’t have a team of people around you, supporting you, helping you guiding you, you’re kind of nothing. Is that

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 4:30
fair? True. In fact, there are a lot of conversations I have with my kids that revolve around exactly this. You know, obviously my daughter, she’s just graduated college. She is a psychologist, a budding psychologist and believe it or not a Korean translator interpreter. My son is just getting into senior high at this point of time, but I keep telling them this. Number one, you got to ask for help. You have support systems that you don’t realize, and there are a whole host of things that you need to make sure Are you constantly asked for and get help on for you to improve yourself, this is a lifelong pursuit, it’s not something that you end up saying, Hey, I’ve done it well. And now I can just sit back and relax, especially with the digital natives, I can tell you, it’s everybody wants instant gratification and instant success. And they don’t want to put in the kind of effort that it takes to get to where you and I are at this point of time. Now, I’m not saying you and I are probably the most successful, but we have had our life experiences behind us and we are in a good place. And to get there, you need to go stage by stage from carding, to the formula 1000s, and to the F trees to the f2. And then if everything goes your way, then f1. And even then you need a good team for you to then be a success. I mean, there are people who have driven 200 races and who have never won a Grand Prix, right.

Michael Waitze 5:56
And those guys are terrible drivers.

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 5:57
They’re brilliant drivers. They just stuck in mediocrity for variety of reasons. But history won’t take care of that or won’t realize that history won’t say, Oh, he was a brilliant driver, but just got stuck in the wrong teams, they’re always only going to talk about the show markers and the Hamiltons of the world who happen to have everything go

Michael Waitze 6:15
their way. Yeah. Can I ask you this too, though? If you believe in this philosophy, that everything in life is a choice, how do you convince whether it’s your daughter or your son or the people with whom you’re working or that work for you that you never get anything you don’t ask for? That you can outperform, you could be the fastest runner or the best coder or the best psychologist. But if you don’t ask for a raise or asked for a different position, or asked to be the driver, or as I did walk up to the head of fixed income trading globally and say, I want to be a fixed income trader, no one’s gonna give it to you. How do you approach that? In

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 6:50
fact, that’s a brilliant question. When I had the opportunity to start Thrive digital as a company, one of the things I wanted to do was to create a very differentiated culture that will allow a lot of my co workers, colleagues, employees to speak up. Indians, by nature, are a little reticent, they try to shy away from the spotlight, and they’re very happy when they are not directly put on the spot. But as you say, the world today requires them to stand up and speak up. Now, of course, the Gen X, the Gen z’s, they’re slightly different, but still not that different culturally. So one of the things that we have in our cultural framework is innovate, collaborate, and empower. This is our cultural framework at Thrive, where Empower is a big deal for us, not just empowering others, but empowering the cells to say, hey, I need to be more comfortable in the spotlight, I need to be able to speak up, I need to be able to stand up for myself, I need to be able to ask questions without any hesitation. So yeah, it’s very, very integral.

Michael Waitze 7:59
So culture is super important in any company. And particularly when you’re building a company from scratch, I want to ask you this too, though, if you go back 25 years, and you think about how if you were building a company in India, in Thailand, where I live, or in Japan, where I lived for 20, something years, your internal company culture, because the people inside the company are all from the same or similar backgrounds seems easier to build? Because a Japanese person, we talked about this offline, right? Because embedded in any country’s language is part of the culture. Right? And you were joking offline, like the way somebody shakes their head can be very different and very subtle. And in Japanese, if you ask me a question, and I say hi, which literally translates as yes, it doesn’t necessarily mean I’m going to do that. That translates, in some cases to I understand, which is okay, if you’re just with Japanese people, but now 25 years later that the world has gone completely global when you’re building a company in India, but it’s meant to be global. How do you account for the global ideas that people need to understand when you’re building that culture to inculcate it into it?

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 9:02
Culture is one of the hardest things that I realized to get right. Obviously, when we were growing up, I think focus was on pretty much learning. It was more the traditional Indian way of top down decision making. You look up to people with a great amount of all and respect. And I’ve had the opportunity to stand on the shoulder of giants of the industry. Again, hindsight, you realize all of the things that you learn not just directly from them, but just by watching them and assimilating how they deal with the situation. But I think today’s culture is slightly different in the sense that you don’t necessarily want to be looked at with or you want to be looked at as someone who is approachable and someone come your colleagues can have a casual conversation with despite that colleague being half of my age and just graduated from school or college. So the other aspects of culture, when you’re trying to operate in a global environment, the cross cultural adaptability becomes extremely important. So when somebody is saying, I hear you, which is the example of Hi, in Japanese, I hear you doesn’t necessarily mean I’m going to do it. It’s just that I hear what you’re saying, doesn’t necessarily mean I agree with it doesn’t necessarily mean I’m going to act upon it. But just that, I hear what you’re saying. So that’s almost like the Indian headshake joke that we made saying Indians shake their head in three different ways. One of them means no, you got to know Indians very, very well. I don’t know which one is actually no.

Michael Waitze 10:42
Exactly. I just remember sitting in so many meetings with Japanese people with people that came from overseas and watching them react to the things that Japanese people said in English, which in most cases ended up being a direct translation in from their head into their English vocabulary. And thinking, That guy has no idea what you just said, None. And he’s gonna go home and completely translated to somebody else at sea in senior management, and it’s just going to be all wrong.

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 11:06
Yeah, they don’t call it thinking in a language. You know, it’s very different from actually native thought that will that language for anything? Yeah,

Michael Waitze 11:13
exactly. So talk to me about how you got to thrive, maybe just give a little bit of background about what your professional experience was like? And what led into this idea of I want to start this company and why Yeah,

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 11:25
I was a chemist, who was looking at process engineering. Initially, at the beginning of my career, I had a small application development sharp of my own, but then middle class family. And so in a middle class family, particularly in India, in the early 90s, you do not want your son or daughter to get into business, because business is seemingly cyclical. You might make some money if you’re successful, but more often than not, you don’t. And so maybe yeah, it’s a maybe, and families that have business in their blood. Of course, they used to take that kind of risk profile families that aren’t want a stable corporate job for their children. And so that’s what my parents wanted for me. So I left my application development startup, if you want to call it that, in the early 90s, to join a small company that at that point of time, was a captive for a very large corporate in the US called Dun and Bradstreet, this startup morphed into one of the biggest IT companies in India, and of course, globally, which was cognizant. So I had an opportunity to do a lot of things very early in my career with Cognizant, I help them with client management, I help them kickstart their domain delivery practices. It’s serendipitous that I joined the healthcare and life sciences space, it wasn’t a choice that I made at that point of time. You know, because I was a chemist, though I had some background in that area from an education perspective. It was my first few accounts that happened to be in the life sciences and healthcare area. And so it just became that, but the company helped us invest ourselves into this industry. And obviously, apart from program delivery, technology, skills, domain skills that you learn and leadership skills and personal development skills, I sort of morphed into a business domain player, which is I was the face of healthcare life sciences for cognizant, I was certified on US FDA regulatory affairs far ahead of the pharmaceutical organizations in APAC, even were so the kind of investments that we made into sort of becoming experts on the customer business, allowing us to go and say, Mr. or Mrs. Customer, you know, what you do the best, of course, but next to you, I know what you do the best that became sort of the mantra, and that put me in a great position to get into organizations understand their offerings, and craft and model the offerings into the customers business context, which a lot of companies were struggling with, at that point of time. So when I left cognizant, nearly a couple of decades after I joined I had a stint with a French German headquartered company. Brilliant from a learning perspective, again, huge portfolio of a billion and a half dollars of annual revenue. But that required me to spend probably half of the month every month, either in business in Paris or in Munich, in Germany, so I was back to living out of a suitcase. And at some point of time,

Michael Waitze 14:37
that does get tiring. It just gets really tiring. Yeah, exactly. When the discussion

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 14:41
around Thrive came up again, it was happenstance. I was asked by one of my professional connects to provide some gum as we call it in India, which is sharing our experience and knowledge around the art of the possible when it comes to setting up a healthcare focus organ. addition in India, and so they wanted me to just say what’s possible, what’s not what kind of talent is available, and so on and so forth. So that they set the right expectation with their leadership team. And at the end of the discussion, the person said, join me, and I became the first employee of Dr. Digital Health allowed me the opportunity to come back to my roots in more ways than one, come back to healthcare, which was always my domain, come back to Chennai, which happened to be home. And of course, the opportunity to start something from scratch with your seal of approval with the culture that you want with the kind of differentiation. And it sort of became a legacy project. For me, I’ve been with this company for about eight years now, probably a few more years before I decided to hang up my boots, but don’t do that. But this, this would be something that I can proudly say, start it from scratch and build a culture that is lasting, and differentiate it and build a set of leaders that are truly healthcare focused only one of its kind in this part of the world. And be proud that we are in fact, possibly the talent factory for the rest of the healthcare focused entities in India.

Michael Waitze 16:10
That’s amazing. Can you do something for me, I want to reference something you said a little bit earlier in the conversation. And I talked about this a lot. But I want to put it into context that I heard when I was in India at a startup event. So I want to share this with you. And then I want you to follow up on it a little bit. A guy was standing on stage in his 20s. And he said he was building an edtech startup. And he said to the audience of like 400 people, most of whom were Indian. He said you all know this, he said an Indian has a has three choices for their career, okay, an engineer, a doctor, or a family disappointment. And the crowd laughed. I didn’t understand like, I got it after he said it. But that was not what I was expecting. I was expecting lawyer or some other profession. But you mentioned earlier that like your family, which cares about you deeply wanted you to have this sort of stable income, which is why they want you to join a big corporate, it makes perfect sense. I did the same thing. When I graduated, right? I went right into Morgan Stanley. And I was in that business in those types of businesses for 20. Something years very stable, right. But at some point, you decided, You know what, I’m going to go right back to the beginning and do something way more risky. What was the feeling that you had yourself even in your 40s? I’m guessing, and even from your family who were like, are you okay, do you know what I mean? Like, what was the difference?

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 17:23
This is bang on an average Indian parent would exactly have that same aspiration for the children, either a doctor or an engineer, or I would add a government job, which is a ticket to stability in most of the lower middle class income families. But yeah, you know, when you think of where we were, when we started out our careers, I think it has a lot to do with the economic situation, what your parents are doing. So families that are used to running businesses, you would almost always find their children follow them or follow their footsteps in terms of either joining the family business or launching another business of their own. The family is so comfortable with that. But for a family, that’s a salaried family, where the father and or the mother is just used to a stable corporate career, the key to success, at least at that point of time, used to be either an engineer or a doctor. And it was fueled a lot by the services revolution as well. If you look at the 90s and everything that happened post 90s Tamil Nadu, which is the state from where I come in, I hail from it probably generate 60% of the engineering talent in India. And a lot of them actually go into the software industry. So the Infosys is the cognizance the Accenture’s, the TCS is the whip Rose of the world, they hire hundreds of 1000s of these engineers every year. And so the factory has to generate that kind of talent. And of course, getting into the IT industry means that you get probably a starting pay, which is 50%, or maybe even 100%, more than any other industry that you can talk of manufacturing, retail, name the industry. So it was the ticket to success for a lot of the non business families. Yeah, but that situation is changing. Now. For example, my daughter is a liberal arts graduate. And she was very clear that she did not want to be either an engineer or a doctor. So the generation that follows us is very clear as to what they want. My son wants to do gaming, our content creation on YouTube or something like that, which is again, so non traditional that it might not even require him to get an undergrad degree, because there is none that exists in that space. You know what I mean?

Michael Waitze 19:44
Right to teach him how to do that.

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 19:45
Exactly. So it’s a new world. And we’re just hoping that the next generation figures out what exactly they want. Exactly.

Michael Waitze 19:53
So I want to get back to something you said earlier you said that thrive is becoming the factory the generation factory for The future of healthcare in India, which is a fascinating statement, but can you tell me like what it’s actually doing and how it’s transforming, and then how it becomes that factory for the future?

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 20:07
Absolutely, Michael. So as a wannabe medical professional, who didn’t end up being a doctor myself, the next best thing to becoming a doctor and actually impacting lives was being part of the industry that creates solutions that then impacts millions of patients or members around the world. So when Thrive was incubated, it started off as an organization that provide technology and business solutions to both the health insurance side of the business as well as the care delivery or hospital side of the business. So the payer and the provider side of healthcare, and what we do is essentially provide solutions that either help deliver better clinical outcomes to patients, or improve the health journey of members as they go through the health incidents that hopefully, we don’t want them to go through. But if they do, how do we make it such that they get the right information on time, they get the process to be as streamlined as possible so as to not add to their tensions and worries, which they would already have enough on their head at that point of time. You look at also the kind of information that we can bring to bear to drive better clinical decision making for the physicians who can then say, Okay, with this information, I can either get to a diagnosis faster or better, and to decide on the clinical care path for my patient in a much more streamlined manner. So Dr. supports health care delivery and health care management from India, and we’re talking about US healthcare here. So drive is directly supporting millions of members and patients get well and manage their health in a much more holistic manner. Now, when I spoke about factory, I didn’t just talk about influencing the future of healthcare, which we are doing through technology advancements, and other solutions that bring to bear deep technology, whether it is analytics, cloud AI, and stuff like that. But also, from an India perspective, when you think of creating a talent base that just doesn’t exist today. When you look at healthcare experts, there are no intuitive healthcare experts, or not too many end to end healthcare experts that exist in this space today. So what we are trying to do is to literally be the talent factory for the rest of the industry. It’s almost like creating an industry brand for thrive, that says, if that person has spent a few years at Thrive, you can rest assured that they know healthcare, and they have no health care end to end. But

Michael Waitze 22:44
this is also super interesting, because it sounds like you’re building this sort of hybrid solution, almost like an operating system for healthcare, if that makes sense is that a fair representation of this. So you’re building the human side of it as well, like you said, a town factory, but more so that if you’ve been at Thrive for a certain amount of time, it’s almost like going to a really great school, getting a master’s degree, getting a PhD, and then representing yourself as an expert in something. So you have that, but this is a different way to do it. But there’s also a tech side of this as well, that says we’ve employed all this technology to build an operating system for healthcare, that going forward is going to make the provision of that healthcare easier and more seamless. Does that make sense? Absolutely.

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 23:20
I mean, we’re very fortunate that we are part of an enterprise that is truly focused on creating the future of health, investing, and redefining and reimagining health as we know it. So the opportunity to do some very, very cool things in terms of trying out new technologies, creating data connections that didn’t exist before, that can then provide the physician or the care delivery person, a completely different picture, a better picture of a patient that can allow either a member or a patient to manage their health in a very, very different proactive way. opportunity exists for us today, because we are part of that enterprise. The other cool thing is as we speak about the human aspect of this, we want to create a long lasting relationship with our folks. And the only way to do that is to invest on them. And when you say invest on them, look at learning, scaling, development opportunities. You know, I keep telling my people that if you spend a day and don’t learn anything new, it’s okay, right. But if you spend a week and you don’t learn anything new, you got to question yourself, if you spend a month, not learning anything new, you’re in the wrong place, probably the wrong organization. That kind of an investment is something that we’re making. We don’t necessarily want to be the talent factory for the rest of the world, or the rest of the industry. But being realistic about it. You want your people to stay with you forever, but you know, that’s not going to happen. At some point of time. They outgrow you, they want to do something bigger, better. And we want them to do that as well. The only thing we tell them is, hey, go ahead, go forth and prosper. Just keep the Thrive flag flying high wherever you are. But remember, you’re roots, you learned healthcare at Thrive?

Michael Waitze 25:02
Yeah, we used to when I was at Morgan Stanley, we used to call it Morgan Stanley university, because we kind of felt like we learned enough there to go somewhere else and do something different. But can I also suggest something else to you? Again, you said a few minutes ago that your son wants to be in the creation, be in the content creation business, maybe be on YouTube, maybe do some other things that you can’t necessarily learn at university today. And maybe never will be able to be fair, right? Because it’s just so dynamic. But I almost feel like it’s the same way in the healthcare industry, because it’s changing so rapidly, that even if you go to medical school, or go to nursing school, or go to, you know, become a technician inside of it, that everything’s changing so rapidly, that maybe you have to be at a place like thrive to learn, and I want to double down or triple down on this idea of if you didn’t learn something today and didn’t learn something, that’s why you didn’t learn something this month, it’s on you, in a way, right, then you can’t complain later. Remember, we talked about this before, no one’s going to give you anything you don’t ask for. And if you’re not asking to learn something new, somebody else is just gonna run right past you. Anyway, I love this idea that you’re building this, this place where people can come and learn. And in a way you You’re indifferent as to how long they stay, as long as they fly that flag. Yeah, of

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 26:09
course, we want them to stay as long as possible. But, you know, realistically speaking, that’s all you can do, you can make sure that you provide that right framework, the right culture of learning, you give them the assets that are required, the knowledge assets that are required that keep challenging them, we have a Thrive digital health certification, that’s a multi year certification that builds upon itself, whether it is technology, domain, platforms, data, or the soft skills required for you to become a better healthcare professional, and most of Thrive does take advantage of that. So 93% of Thrive, have enrolled themselves into the certification process. And it’s not something that easy to get through. It’s a multi year journey, as I said,

Michael Waitze 26:55
right, so you have to have a commitment to it. And I would make the case as well. And again, tell me if I’m wrong, that the inherent motivation for someone who’s actually going to end up being a great employee, or even a great entrepreneur, is just this idea of learning. It’s not necessarily money, like if you ask most great entrepreneurs, like why are you building this? It’s one, it’s because I think the world needs it. But to it’s because every day, I learned something new about this thing that I was always had an interest, but didn’t operate inside of it. And that’s why it’s interesting as well, that you say 90 something percent of people sign up for this certification inside of Thrive that they know is going to take them five years to do it’s like getting the CFA, it’s like, do you really care about finance? If you do commit yourself to it? If not, I mean, good luck, but somebody else is going to be committed. Yeah, money

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 27:36
is something that I tell my kids at least is a byproduct. As long as you keep demonstrating your passion, find the lucky guy, whatever that is, you know, money will come. It’s a matter of time. I guess. I could

Michael Waitze 27:48
not agree with you more. Can we talk about this, if you want to talk about time, because you’ve already talked about learning? When you look into the future, right? What is thrive? 510 15 years out? What do you want it to be? And this is before you retire? Because I’m not letting you?

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 28:03
Yeah, so let’s look at that from different dimensions. One is a pure, let’s say, scale, in terms of the number of people who get the opportunity to be part of Thrive and build out the organization and take it to the next level, whatever that is, I think we will be 2x or 3x, in the next 510 years in terms of the scale. But that is I think the least of the relevant dimensions. In my opinion, I think the biggest impactful dimension, at least in this case, would be the capability now thrive in five years time would have created I would say another 5000 End to End healthcare professionals, which essentially mean 5000 or 10,000, people who can literally walk into any other organization and start leading teams start leading discussions around what is the value that the customers expect? And how can we start delivering on that value from either a patient journey perspective, or a care delivery perspective, or quality of care perspective on an access to care perspective, all of these good perspectives, I’m creating leaders who can essentially take whatever they’ve learned to thrive and start delivering on that promise, whichever company that they are in, and hopefully, et cetera.

Michael Waitze 29:19
So I worked at Goldman Sachs. And when I was there, I was very proud of it. Because I felt like we had a certain code there that made everything we do. Like we were just very proud of it. Like I was happy to wear a Goldman Sachs hat. And I didn’t care what other people thought about it. And I think there was a time at Microsoft and maybe even today and even at Apple where people say where do you work and just say apple and everybody knows what it means. Some commitment to quality, some commitment to amazing this. Do you feel like you’re building a team at Thrive? That walks around today and says, I work and thrive with pride.

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 29:50
That is the hope and that is the prayer that I go to sleep with every day, Michael? So on an outward optic perspective, my work Group is filled with Thrive T shirts, or shirts, as the case may be, right? I feel proud wearing thrive on my sleeves and on my heart. But at the same time, I know I gotta earn that feeling within each of my employee base. So now with a Gen Z or a Gen X, you don’t get that intrinsic loyalty de facto, you got to earn it. And so that’s what we’re all trying to do the leadership at Thrive, saying, Okay, I care about you. But at the same time, not just the today’s you, but the tomorrow’s you who is going to be a leader, either a tribe or elsewhere, I care about building you to be that person, but doesn’t get

Michael Waitze 30:37
back to the thing. You mentioned earlier that again, a generation ago, if you joined a big company, you looked at your leadership with all and don’t you think it’s kind of cool now that you are that guy who doesn’t want to receive all but wants to receive that feeling of I’ve instilled this pride into you, which is a very different way of managing, if that makes sense.

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 30:58
Absolutely. In fact, that’s among the most satisfying things for any leader in this industry. The fact that you’ve been able to successfully impart your life experiences to a whole bunch of your colleagues and young employees and sort of groom them into next generation leaders. I mean, that’s what we all aspire for. Right? Okay.

Michael Waitze 31:20
I want to let you go. But I want to leave you with the last word, what’s the last thing you want people to know about thrive?

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 31:24
I would say, you know, when you think health care, and when you think health care capability, I want Dr. Digital Health to be in the minds of people. Just like you said Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley, when it comes to investment banking, there are a few names that pop up immediately. When it comes to healthcare. I want Dr. Digital Health to be one of the first few that pop up in people’s minds. And if I’m able to do that, both in terms of external validation that hey, these guys are doing something cool in healthcare from a capability perspective, supporting a whole bunch of people in their health journeys, or more importantly, in our employees minds, saying these guys have made a huge difference to me as an employee as a thriving made me feel part of the journey and was invested in me in building me to be a better healthcare professional, a better leader for the rest of the industry. I think we would have accomplished a lot of what we set out to do.

Michael Waitze 32:20
Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan, the CEO of Thryve Digital Health. I cannot thank you enough for doing this today.

Balasubramanian Sankaranarayanan 32:26
God bless. Thank you so much for having me, Michael. I appreciate it.